SBC=>ENCOUNTERS

GOOD WORDS FROM Dave Miller on Sex

A few days ago, I addressed an op which I felt dealt a bit too preachy on "how to address sex" in the pulpits of America (and perhaps beyond).  Dave Miller, editor of SBC Voices, had his own take on the subject and I find his 6 Points far better than Dr. Ed Stetzer's 5 Points.  Perhaps you'll see what I mean here with a portion of Dave's post:

"So, for me, the “how do we address sex in church?” issue is not a theoretical one.  It’s very practical.  I have to do it Sunday.

So, here’s my thoughts on how to handle this hot-potato issue:

1. God made us male and female and called his creation very good.  Sex was made by God as a gift to husbands and wives. We need to remember that.  If I act as if sex is dirty, shameful or disgusting, we insult God’s creation.

2. Sin has, in fact, made sex into something dirty and disgusting for many people, because we have turned from God’s plan, ignored his ways and embraced immorality and impurity. So, I cannot treat sex lightly, or feed into the sexually-charged culture in the way I treat the topic.

3. Some topics deserve to be treated in private, not in public.  If you want to know my opinion about certain practices, ask me in private.  I’m not going to address them here or from the pulpit.  I will address them appropriately, but not publicly.

4. Using sex and sexual topics as a means of attracting a crowd to the church is, to me, a sort of ecclesiological prostitution; what one cult used to call “flirty fishing.”  It is my role to address sexual topics when they come up, but it is not my role to be a sex therapist or to promote sexual activity among my members.  Using a series on sex to promote church attendance just seems crass to me.

5. Thank God my dad taught me verse-by-verse expository preaching.  Pick a book and preach through it.  Then, when a subject comes up, you can just blame the Bible!  I’m not addressing sex on Sunday because I’m a perv, I’m addressing it because I’ve finished chapters 1-4 and now it’s time for chapter 5.  So much is solved by preaching verse-by-verse.

6. Preaching about sex is like walking a tightrope.  This is a real part of real people’s lives and the Word speaks to it directly, apologetically and unashamedly.  I need to do the same.  However, I need to be tactful, respectful, avoid crassness and crudity.  Walking that tightrope is not easy.  Especially when you are my size (and age). (excerpt from Dave Miller, SBC Voices: As the Kerfuffle Turns)

For those of you who rarely take the time to read the comment sections in blogs, I think there is another portion of this "hot potato" conversation worth mentioning which I have copied and pasted for your convenience:

Bill Mac wrote:

I’m going to take a bit of a contrary view here. I think the bible speaks very little about sex, and for the most part the church has done due diligence in teaching about it. Now, the sum total of verses that talk about sex may be dozens, but the messages are few, and simple.

Don’t have sex before you are married.
Get married to someone of the opposite sex.
Have sex only with your spouse.
Enjoy it.
Don’t withhold sex from your spouse.
Don’t lust after people other than your spouse.

Easy peasy.

Has the Christian church really withheld the above? And if not, what’s the problem? If someone is preaching through the books then by all means don’t shy away from the sex verses, but it’s not really that hard. The verses quoted in the article is encapsulated in what I’ve written above.

We don’t need books on sex, and seminars on sex. People know how to have sex. Sometimes they need to be told when and with whom. That message is pretty simple.

14DAVE MILLER REPLIES:

I can see your point, Bill, but I’m not sure I agree. In a culture as sexually sick as ours, I think the need to address things more directly and more biblically increases. Kids in my church come through high school having a certain (unbiblical) set of sexual values drummed into them. They are taught that it is unthinkable hate to question the righteousness of the homosexual lifestyle.

In a culture like that, it is more important to address sexual morals biblically (and perhaps more frequently) than in healthier cultures. I do not think it is advisable to ignore the topic. Not in a culture as sexually charged as ours. That leaves the other side shaping the values of our young people.

TO WHICH I REPLIED:

Dave, I am not sure, perhaps Bill Mac will return and expound, but I don’t think he would at all disagree with what you are saying here. It behooves the church and minister to address the misinformation which you describe. It is extremely important not to water down the word to be politically correct as society is doing in the school systems with the introduction of books like I Have Two Mommies, etc. That is more than appropriate for you. In fact, I think it would also go a long long way for a minister to take the time to address this issue in a closed session with all his youth teachers and leaders who will be the main influence of their young people.

For my part, I am no longer a youth leader, but I did address these issues with the permission of parents in our youth group sessions. Today I address them with my grandchildren and it is a topic we discuss on occasion over dinner when the littlest of these are not present.

I think if all preachers took the approach you share in your six points in your op, then there would be no hunger for the “hype” we see in the man from Seattle and his kind. My greatest concern at this juncture is that by validating his kind, we not only invite greater misuse of the sacred texts of Scripture, but risk the multiplication of his kind of “hype” and sensationalism. And the scariest part of that is, when one thing loses its sensationalistic attraction, the systematic bent to follow is to create a greater Circus and more explicit acts to draw the crowds. selahV

So, there you have another look at the way to approach the "hot potato" subject within the church situation.  I cannot stress any stronger my complete and utter dismay towards my opposition to others within our convention who continue to endorse Mark Driscoll's book, REAL MARRIAGE.  Especially, when one reviewer said he ought to republish it under the title REAL SEX, because that is how it written.

Another prominent Southern Baptist voice offers another review of this book as a result of the "kerfuffle" Mark Driscoll's book and presence at Liberty University caused.  I think it is well-worth taking the time to read and to consider as a warning for all those who would consider using Driscoll's book as a "marital counseling" guide. (And to be clear, this is exactly what happened to some dear young couple I know who have lived a celibate life and are getting pre-marital counseling...this is part of the reason for my own interest and my public outcry). Below is a portion of what Heath Lambert, Assistant Professor of Pastoral Theology, Boyce College, Louisville, Kentucky writes:

"Because I am a professor who teaches many classes on marriage, a pastor who does ministry with many married couples, and a husband who is married, I have a great stake in books on marriage. I am always interested when a book on marriage is released. I am always excited when such a book is written by an influential Christian leader and his wife with the potential to influence massive numbers of people.

I really wanted Real Marriage to be a helpful book and was concerned when I began hearing that many of the reviews on the book were negative. I was even more concerned when I found, after reading the book myself as well as a number of the reviews, that many of these negative reviews were far too favorable of the book. In fact, I was sad when upon completing the book it was clear that this book is a dangerous and troubling one that will cause confusion and difficulty in many marriages.

It is not as though there is nothing of any value in the book. The problem is that the good elements of the book are so frequently obscured and/or contradicted by very many bad elements of the book. The mingling of these helpful things with a lot of bad things are what I refer to as the ironies of Real Marriage." Excerpt from The Ironies of Real Marriage A Review of Mark Driscoll, Real Marriage: The Truth about Sex, Friendship, and Life Together. Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 2012.

I do hope this offers another, less "hyped" and greater-balanced, perspective into what has become an extremely volatile discussion and debate among Southern Baptists today.  If not, it is not for lack of trying to walk Dave Miller's "tightrope" in my sweatpants and "Ask-About-My-Grandchildren" tee-shirt. selahV

RELATED POSTS ON MARK DRISCOLL "KERFUFFLES":

Hariette Petersen on: Redefining Sin, Discernment, Admonishment, and Exhortation

Peter Lumpkins on: Mark Driscoll responds to Peter Lumpkins

REDEFINING Sin, Discernment, Admonishment, and Exhortation

Is the Mark Driscoll debacle at Liberty University simple a "fuss" that will fade away with him climbing into his limo and leaving the campus?  Perhaps.  For some.  But this "fuss", "kerfuffle", "brew-ha ha", will most likely not end with a one-night stand by Driscoll's speaking event.  No.

The truth is, the influence Driscoll has been granted by the LU leadership has sanctioned his words and his mis-interpretations of Scripture.  His viewpoints now enter the bedrooms and philosophies and marital counseling offices of future ministers and Christian leaders of tomorrow.  Indeed, some will reject them.  Others will try to emulate.  Some will follow and later find their marriages and relationships destroyed or maimed.  "Kerfuffles" have their way of making lasting impressions sometimes.

I consider the lightheartedness of SBC Voices directed toward all those who challenge the status quo in the Christian community of faith for their lack of discernment as merely a "kerfuffle" less than amusing.  In fact, if the recent post above is meant to "amuse" we might evaluate what  a-muse means in light of Adrian Rogers' words.  "A" means "not" and "Muse" means "to think".  When we treat admonishment and exhortations as amusing, we are simply "not thinking".  That said, I defer to John MacArthur on the involvement of Christians in societal and cultural problems today such as speakers for a Christian school:

"Reclaiming the culture is a pointless, futile exercise. I am convinced we are living in a post-Christian-society--a civilization that exists under God's judgment. ...abundant evidence suggests that God has abandoned this culture to its own depravity. Certainly He is not interested in superficial moral reform for an unregenerate society.  God's purpose in this world--and the church's only legitimate commission--is the proclamation of the message of sin and salvation to individuals, whom God sovereignly redeems and calls out of the world.  God's purpose is to save those who will repent of their sins and believe the gospel--not to work for external corrections in a morally bankrupt culture." John MacArthur, The Vanishing Conscience

It's disheartening, for me, to see the amusements of some Christians. It's discouraging to witness coarse jesting attributed to that which other Christians find in opposition to the Gospel message and objectionable as an entre` served up to the consciences of young minds.

Is there really no more sobriety of mind when it comes to things which affect society's behavior and views?  Have we truly become so anesthetized to culture's sinful call, that we no longer see the blackness of the soul, the severity of condoning immoral choices, or laughing at that which opposes the Trinity of God?  When sincerely-presented dissent is batted away like mosquitoes on a summer night, and swatted down as pesky little insects with no more regard than an insignificant "kerfuffle", we have come to a time when discernment is redefined and admonishment is a badge of honor and endorsement to go and do likewise.  selahV

When Young Men Grow Old

The spirit of a young man is an amazing thing.  Young men are the key to the future health of churches within the SBC.  Daniel and his comrades were examples of the power and stamina and allegiance needed to make a difference in a heathen land. The king who overthrew Judah's king was no dummy.  He handpicked the best young men to show his prowess. (see Daniel 1:3-4)  Nebuchadnezar wanted:

"Children in who was no blemish, but well-favored, and skillful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans." Daniel 1:4

Anyone who thinks the youth in our churches today have no significance, need only consider this passage.  There are those who know all too well that the way to build a kingdom, to secure it, and ensure its longevity, you must set aside and teach them "the learning and tongue of the Chaldeans".  You must have young men who speak the same language.  You must have young men who are turned on to your cause.  You must have young men who will stand and deliver:

You must have young men who are "well-favored" among their peers and have the respect of the older generations.  You must have young men who are "skillful in all wisdom" and show common sense and are not prone to silliness.  You must have young men who are "cunning in knowledge and understanding science " and who are the brightest among their age group.  You must have young men who have the "ability", courage and tenacity and boldness, "to stand in the king's palace".  Why?

Because they are the ones who will carry on the kingdom work when men grow old.  And they are the ones most prone to rise up against you if you do not acknowledge that they are a part of something great in the kingdom of God.  They are the ones who will not be satisfied with a pat on the head, to be set apart for the end of the race--to grab the baton and finish it.  They don't want to wait.  They are eager.  They want to run now.  And you need to "teach" them the Truth they need to know--the language and the deeper things...before someone else teaches them the language of the "Chaldeans".

You need to teach them before the formidable king feeds them the dainties and the meat, and plows them with his finest wine.  Otherwise...

When you are old, there will be no one to carry on.  The old will pass away and the tried and true will be no more.  It will become irrelevant.  It will become obsolete.  It will become a forgotten language.  It will have been handed over to those antsy youth who sought to be relevant in the kingdom without waiting years to own their own plot of land.

The enemy seeks to rob us of our young people. He cares not who he uses to accomplish his deceitful plans.  He still seeks to appeal to their flesh, their ego, their pride.  He plays to their insecurities and maleable minds.  He still wants to plow them with fermented wine, feed their egos, encourage their pride and appeal to their baser instincts of sexuality and gude them in a new Solomon Song.  He still wants to build his kingdom from those who are young and restless--those who do not want to wait, to respect that which is established and sound.  He still wants to tell them they belong at the front of the line and the last to run is insignificant in winning the prize set before them.  He makes sure they understand that their way is the right way and any other way is an exercise in futility.  Only the "intellectual" can possibly understand what is the way and the truth of kingdom matters.

Yes, we must protect our youth.  If we don't, when young men grow old and settled, they'll no longer sing, Victory in Jesus, Washed in the Blood, or Bless Be the Tie That Binds. Mothers will no longer sing, Jesus Loves Me, This I Know.  Instead, "Let us eat, drink, and be merry, for yesterday we were dead" will be the lullaby of the ages. selahV

Where Is Jesus Now? by hariette petersen

I spent quite a bit of time yesterday in meditation, thinking about where Jesus was from Thursday's last supper, to the Cross, to the tomb.  I considered where He was as I went about my Saturday: coloring eggs, getting clothes ready for church, preparing my ham dinner, and even commenting on a few blogs.  I listened to lots of music and revisited a beautiful video with Dallas Holm singing RISE AGAIN, in the background.

Because my blog SelahV Today has been removed from the SBC Voices, Watchlist of Influential blogs, much of my more uplifting messages and inspirational thoughts are no longer spotlighted.  So, I thought I'd share a post with folks who are just beginning to find me through this link...a post I wrote yesterday for this morning's selahV today readership:

As I considered the trials that preceded the crucifixion, I thought of all those who wanted Jesus to just go away...the Jewish leaders of that day, Pilate who wanted to keep his kingdom flowing without controversy.  They simply wanted Jesus to get out of their faces.  And I understood his rejection.  I understood very well.  Today I'd like to share another side of my "voice" in Southern Baptist life.  For those of you who know me, this will not come as anything new, I suppose; it's the bulk of who I am, after all.  For those of you who've just been introduced to me through SBC Encounters, I offer to you, A Bit by SelahV Today....

Where indeed is Jesus?

From the Lord's last supper to the Garden of Gethsemane.  From the agony in the Garden to the courts of accusers, liars, and mockers.  There He suffered scourging, his flesh ripped from his bones.  Weakened by the loss of blood, the lack of sleep, Jesus stood His ground and answered not a word.  I AM was in their midst, yet they did not see Him.  One last chance, they offered Him up to the crowds who sang Hosanna, Hosanna, just one week before.  Crucify Him!  Crucify Him!  The shouts were loud and clear.  And so a thief, a liar, a depraved individual goes free and does not face the fate of crucifixion as was his just reward.  Pilate washed his hands as if that washed away his guilt by association.

We are Barrabas.  We are.  We were let free as the Savior of the world took our place and punishment that day.  He took upon His back our burden to be pure and righteous.  He took upon His shoulders, the cross that we should bear.  When the sky turned dark as night, and the earth began to quake, the temple veil was torn from top to bottom to signify the Hands that ripped it in two pieces.  Men gambled for his robe, others mocked His naked body and laughed at His humiliation.

Then...

Jesus died.  And angel voices cried.  So did Mary, mother of the Lord.   Mary Magdalene who hung on His every word, now questioned all she knew and fell short of faith that day...but...where was Jesus?

He had some time to kill between crucifixion's hour, and when they'd see His ressurrection power.  Mary knew her son was dead. She'd seen the water mixed with blood pouring from Christ's side from the soldier's sword.  No longer would she walk with Him and talk with Him, for He was dead and gone.  Her heart was like the empty tomb.  Only remnants of her precious son remained.

Where exactly did Jesus go?  to preach the sermon of Life everlasting to those who'd died before Him with barely a whisper of hope?  To give fair warning to satan and his demons?  To crush His head beneath His feet?  To pay the price for all my sins?  I wonder...yet, does it matter in the scheme of things?  I know where He is today.  He sits at the right hand of the Father and points me out as one covered by His blood. "She's mine", He says.  "No longer is she bound by sin, nor even by its power.  On Friday I was crucified; on Sunday I arose to life and conquered the grave.  Death no longer has a sting, pain and sorrow end."  Somehow, I sense a presence as the Lord says to me:  I AM preparing a place for you...that where I AM, you may also be.  I have overcome the world.  I made a bridge to heaven, "that whosoever believeth in Me shall have everlasting life." John 3:16  "Go tell; go tell it on the mountain...go now and tell."

AIN'T NO POWER ON EARTH GOING TO TIE ME DOWN!/link

A Dialogue With Doug Hibbard, by hariette petersen

As I read what Doug wrote in his inspirational post, The Men Who Came To Dinner/here, what he said about the “common” cup and “utensil”, pierced through a veil of complacent thought, and touched my heart.  I think it would be good to read his post before you read mine, below.  What is Easter to you?  Would you have gone to dinner with Jesus?  Would you have dipped your bread into his cup?  Do you now?

Just as Doug relates in his post, I think that it is symbolic that they each betray Jesus in their own way. Just as we do every day in ways we, ourselves, sometimes fail to recognize.

I think of the other 11 disciples and how Peter (denied) betraying the friendship and relationship with his master, three times before the cock crowed. I think of the other 10 who scattered and ran for their lives. Jesus tells us that we must deny ourselves and pick up our cross daily to follow Him. And yet, we scatter. We shiver. We do not take a stand when stands are all we can take to manifest the boldness and power in Him. We sit and we cower and we pretend we are not part of Him to win the approval of servant girls in the dark of night. They all betrayed Him. We each betray Him. Yet, He loves us because He is God…and God is love.

And that night Jesus gave us all a way to remember His love for us, and what He did for us. What a glory in Him to have provided such a remembrance when we are all caught up in what the world will do to us, what man does to us. We may face rejection, false accusations as He that night before the Sanhedrin and later Pilate. Yet we, do not get the punishment for our betrayal. We receive forgiveness. Our sins are paid for. And Jesus takes them with Him beyond the grave.

Then He says, eat with me Peter, feed my sheep. And we do. and sometimes we forget how much He means to us and how much He loves us. And we fail to love one another as He loves us. And yet…even then…each morning he gives us new mercies.

Glory, glory, glory to the King. I am thankful for this post from Doug. It may not have received much recognition in light of other posts in the sea of blogs and blatherings. But this is the reason, the very reason our voices are necessary today.

We forget how much He is. We get caught up in ignoble things of earth. We fail to seek the face of God and we wonder…we rebuke those who do not spend time contemplating His sacrifice. His agony. We fall asleep when He tells us to wait, watch and pray. May God open our eyes today and through this weekend to remember…that what we do is in remembrance of Him. God’s grace be yours…may His spirit be made manifest in miraculous and unexpected ways for you this weekend. selahV

WORDS of WARNING, by Doug Hibbard, a recommendation by Hariette Petersen

As I surf the web for deeper understanding of issues, for inspiration, edification and a word of knowledge from the Lord from His servants, I sometimes am astonished at what I find.  So many Voices in the grasslands.  Sometimes I'm appalled.  Sometimes annoyed.  Not so with the "buggy" post by Doug Hibbard.  He writes a very timely piece about:

one stubborn man.

one voice warning.

other voices joining.

yet, one fate of one who does not listen.

nor heed the voice which is most important in all of our daily pursuits of control, power, and self-aggrandizing.

Check out Doug's post HERE.  I like him more each time God brings me by his site. Maybe you will, too.  selahv

I Hate Controversy, Don't You

Believe it or not, I don't comment that often on that which I disagree.  I rarely debate people. It never ends well.  Someone invariably accuses the other of seedy and unseemly attitudes.  No matter how carefully we word something, or how many words we use to explain something we have already said.  I've found that most people do not want to hear another viewpoint other than their own.  Do you?  That is, do you want to hear another viewpoint when you are happy with your own?

I think God has his own viewpoint on life in general and with Christians in particular.  I kinda think He wants everyone to make nice.  All the time. Especially when it concerns the "things of heaven", the cooperation with the body of Christ.  I don't think God really cares whether you like blue or green drapes as long as you get the drapes and block out the heat pouring into His house.

I think what we think is far less important in the scheme of things than what God thinks.  It does kinda grate on my nerves when someone else thinks that what they think is superior to what others think, though. Or, worse...that they have a market cornered on what God thinks.  And to prove it, they add this and that to whatever to explain to whoever that they are wrong or right.

I think we ought to be able to share what we think without fear of persecution, condemnation, or personal character assassinations.  But...that's just me.

Others think it's okay to tear everyone down, rip apart other viewpoints, and dissect every single solitary word they say or write. Is it okay to reject people in the process of rejecting their views?  Can the two be separated?  Must we be angry with someone simply because we don't agree with them?  Is it fair to judge another's heart based on what we perceive to be some growing "anger" when they disagree with something we do?  or how we interact with others?  I am beginning to wonder if we all aren't building our own towers of superiority and viewpoint, and the Lord is confounding our words because they are not HIS viewpoint.  I'm thinking...God hates controversy, too.

I so wish everyone could think like me.  Don't you wish everyone would think like you?  I know God wishes everyone would think like Him...so what do we do?

Isn't there someway for everyone to center on one thing and one thing only?

Jesus?

After all it is His church, not ours.  We ARE the church.  Does the doorknob tell the hinge what to do?  Does the floorboards hold up the walls, or the walls support the ceiling?  Does the light switch give light or the outlet which runs to the electricity source?  Let's debate that, okay?  no?

Some things just aren't worth our time, energy or spiritual depletion to argue about. I abhor confrontation--to a weakness.  What difference does one opinion make anyway?  The Bible says not to consider yourself smarter or better than anyone else.  But to submit ourselves one to another. If we are Gospel-believing Christians, then why don't we act like it and follow the Bible?  Why do we get all caught up in everyone else's life?

Why do we blog?  For what purpose?

Why do we comment, for what purpose? 

To hear our own voice?  to get our kudos and backslaps? to see how many "likes" we can collect?   OR...now this is novel...to make a difference in the Kingdom of God? to support and affirm anothers thoughts and actions?  to persuade? to encourage? to inform?  to edify?

I've been accused, when I voice an opposing position of "unkindness, anger," and all kinds of other things.  So, that's why I don't comment that often on that which I disagree. It throws folks into a tailspin of shock and awe.

I find that writing positive things and dwelling on that which is pure and good is better for me spiritually, emotionally, and physically.  Plus?  It's biblical.

So let me tell you something I think:

I think that individuals have a choice to which group of people they associate or affiliate.  They are free to choose their faith group, to submit to it, or not?  It is their choice.  It is their free will decision to join and be involved with whatever group--democratic, authoritarian or cult.  Isn't it?  And isn't this typical of Christ's prophecy in the latter days?  Everyone going in any directions they so choose?

I just personally choose to associate myself with the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC).  And I love to talk with folks who share my love and passion.  Though some will argue with me concerning her history with specific movements, eras and birthpangs, to me, her history is rich.   It's one of autonomy.  It's one of voluntary cooperation of multiple autonomous churches coming together to advance the commission of our Lord to "go into all the world and preach the gospel, make disciples, to baptize them, teaching them to observe all things which I [Jesus Christ], have commanded".

Every Believer has a personal opinion of how to best get that done. Normal, since each Believer is given specific gifts by the Holy Spirit to accomplish "kingdom work", wouldn't you say?

Some folks want to build bigger and better seminaries.  Some people want to spend their time and money going to Peru, and Africa and Russia for a couple of weeks a year. Some people want to send money to the Cooperative Program so missionaries can live on field year-round and amongst the people and help them grow to be self-reliant, self-sustaining church groups which raise up pastors and leaders indigenous to their own culture.

Our SBC history exemplifies a clear and distinct roadmap to obey the commission of our Lord Jesus Christ: by training ministers, by sending and financially supporting missionaries in nations around the world.  Her history is one which offers salvation to all by preaching the God's message of love and salvation to any who will listen and receive Jesus--the ONLY Gospel message.  Her history gives audible "voice" to the inerrant, living Word of God.

The SBC has grown, spiritually and numerically since her birth, and made room for young and old pastors, for all races, and people groups.  She has enthusiasm and unbridled compassion for missions, and gospel-focused social ministry throughout the entire world. Her Disaster Relief teams are known throughout the world--from Joplin, Missouri to Tokyo, Japan, for their ability to organize and help quickly in times of horrific castastrophies; they are second to none. And rumor has it, we are about to elect the first Black president of our convention in New Orleans.  I do not know if that is fact or gossip.  However, to me?  that is amazing progress since I was a little girl growing up in a racially segregated world in Virginia.

THEREFORE:

Given my understanding of Southern Baptists in general, I've been asking myself, how I can sit idly by in my comfortable recliner, protected from Oklahoma winds by my steel-built home, and not say something, I mean...something, if I find her threatened in some way, or read about ideas and thoughts of some who want to go in another direction from which many within the grassroots of Southern Baptists are unaware of?

How can I?

Should I sit here sipping on my Save-a-lot brand coffee, frugally saving coins to give to mission efforts of our convention, contemplating what the Lord would have us give to Annie Armstrong, and not say a word simply because I hate controversy and debate? For fear of offending someone?  Being attacked?  Rejected?  I don't know.  I just don't anymore.  Do you?  I'm trying to figure it out.  selahV

Will Southern Baptist Churches Cooperating with One Another BE NEGATED by Affiliation with ACTS-29?

I do not know.  However...

...reading various "voices" within the SBC blogosphere behooves us to consider whether the Cooperative Program, and Missions as we've always known them to be defined within our convention of churches, are at risk.  That said, should the convention of autonomous SBC churches be fully informed of the theology, mindset, goals, movements and clear objectives of the affiliations, and send messengers to vote with full disclosure of agendas, we might be better able to carry on intelligent conversations throughout the blogosphere.  With the barrage of controlled discussion, including ill-defined vocabulary, and complicated phrasing to disquise agendas, the average pew-sitter like myself, and 85 to 90% of the SBC, it becomes virtually impossible to debate, dialogue, discuss or inquire about things which concern Baptists today.  Below is one comment "reply" to another commenter's question, who is trying to discern how the presence of ACTS 29 and SBC affiliations is troubling to some.  I think he endeavors to be clear and honest in his evaluation and answer to Les:

"First, there is but a minimal "requirement" for churches to be affiliated with the SBC--only a few hundred bucks. Hence, there is no % mandate. Local churches vary. Second, that is not to say that there exists unwritten expectations the convention at large places on supporting churches. Few would view a church that gives a couple hundred bucks (unless it is a very very tiny church) as a "fully cooperating" SBC church. 

As for A29, I've done quite a bit of reading in their material. While they officially do not "require" 10% going to A29 churches (1% of which goes to the A29 Network), they make it clear it's expected, very similarly to our CP expectations.

Finally, you state that Mary overstated about A29 spreading Calvinism rather that Christ. However, embracing "Reformed" theology is a non-negotiable theological template for A29. They are uninterested in churches and/or church planters who are neither a) theologically "Reformed" and, b) elder governed. Both of these theo-ecclesial conditions apply. This remains one of the chief reasons I find A29 objectionable for SBC purposes. We demand neither; they demand both. Hence, it follows that A29 would be interested in affiliating with, at most, about 5-10% of Southern Baptists. Yet we are on course to making A29 our bread-n-butter church planting venue. From my view, this is suicidal for the Cooperative Program.

With that, I am...
Peter"    [replying to Les at SBC Tomorrow on post "Truth Is Unkillable"/see full post HERE]

Related posts which literally were prompted as a result of one innocuous dissenting comment by me in a stream of comments, on this subject can be found HERE@FromLaw2Grace, HERE@SelahVToday, HERE@SelahVToday, HERE@SelahVToday, HERE@SBCVoices, and HERE@SBCVoices, HERE@SBCVoices, HERE@SBCVoices, HERE@SBCVoices, HERE@DennyBurk,  HERE@DennyBurk, HERE@GospelCoalition, HERE@SBCVoices, and HERE@SelahVToday.

THESE links are hardly exhaustive of those which are related to, or prompted by, the following comment I inadvertantly, and unwittingly discovered with shock and awe to create such a firestorm of opposition towards my view in general and my personal character in specifics:

"Well, Brandon, I didn’t read your post. My mind shut down at the introduction of who Steve is: Director of Acts29 Western Europe.  I said to myself, Acts 29?  I’m not in Kansas anymore. I checked the link to ascertain I was at “SBC” Voices.   Acts-29 is not a voice I am interested in hearing. No offense…". selahV

I include my, now, deleted comment, and links above which pertain to it, in this post only because I find the furor and hailstorm of bloggers, and entity leaders within the SBC, more than curious and disturbing given the lack-of-discussion, previously relating to ACTS-29 Network. I'm curious, if simply writing a few words of dissent and disinterest in a forum designed to register opinions of Southern Baptists specifically, about ACTS 29's affiliation with SBC, then what could happen if some "brazen" autonomous SBC churches find, (upon deeper evaluation of ACTS 29, founded and run by Mark Driscoll), that affiliation and Cooperative Program monies spent to aid development of churches is objectionable to them?

Would the wrath of God come down upon those churches?  Would the pastors be ostracized and removed from Convention platforms to speak?  Would concerned pew-sitters and messengers like myself have our microphones muted on the Convention floor?  Would we be smacked down and told to sit down, and to go back to our churches and whine there if we wanted to whine?  Would any member of the church who spoke in opposition be shunned and sent out the back door of their respective church?   I don't know.  I'm just asking.  selahV  (a.k.a. one female voice crying in the grasslands)

[Comments are open, but are all moderated and cannot be seen by public until published by ME hitting the "publish" button. Feel free to voice your thoughts with grace. You do not have to read the full post offered at the Link provided with Peter's reply to Les, nor to read all the related links provided, to offer your thoughts on this op. Just to be clear.

And also, you probably won't have to be concerned about me arguing via email because I am taking Dr. Ed Stetzer's advice and not replying to emails which will go no where and end up back at the original opinion of the sender of the emails.]

Counselors, Therapists, and Others Who Analyze Our Lives

Are they really necessary?  If the church was doing its job, would we need professional counselors?  Loaded question, friends.

Most all counselors, psychiatrists, and therapists who have the bonafide "shingle" to hang on their walls are trained to be counselors in secular psychology.  With Freud, Spock, Dr. Seuss, and Ego-maniacs as mentors to be considered, how can we trust any counselor to be Christian enough to meet the spiritual needs of our lives in a particular counseling situation?  Sometimes we have so many "voices" running around in our heads, we cannot hear God for the din of debate.

I can't answer for the world at large.  I can't even answer for a whole lot of people I know.  I can only answer for myself (and sometimes I find that difficult).  In my life I've had counselors who helped, and counselors who nearly destroyed me.  One, so entrenched in Freud, told me my every problem related to my father's life-long example of authoritarianism and my mother's abandonment when I was but three.  My mother's abandonment supposedly taught me to distrust women.  My father's authoritanianism taught me to cower and fear confrontation.  That "shrink" told me it would take multiple years to get over the problems I had.  I thought he was nuts.  I never returned to him.

Years later, the counselor I found most helpful to me was a Southern Baptist pastor in New England, (yeah, "Southern" in New England--go figure). Dr. Charles Conley was one of the most instrumental people, along with his wife, and other elder Christian women in the church, who turned my life inside out and pointed me to every single thing I needed to have a new life worth talking about, living for, and not destroying with drugs, alcohol, destructive relationships, and self-loathing.

Yeah.  Christians.  Southern Baptist Christians. In East Hartford, Connecticut.  Who would believe?

Glad I asked that rhetorical question.  You see, I was shown that "whosoever" believed in the virgin-born, only begotten Son of God, and that He'd died on a cross, and spilled His blood, and died for the sin of the entire world, and was buried in a tomb and raised to life on the third day, would receive  a bonafide, regenerated, new life everlasting which moth could not eat, man could not kill, nor Satan have power to steal and destroy.  John 3:16 was a familiar verse to me.  I'd memorized it as a child in Triangle, Virginia, while going to Vacation Bible School in a Southern Baptist church.

And when God drew me to that church in Connecticut, He already knew the mess I'd made of my life for walking away from the teachings of my childhood.  He already knew I was a pathetic self-centered rebellious individual.  However...

"Because He first loved" me, I learned to love myself and others.  1 John 4:13

Life was not a cake-walk after that.  But with the counseling of wise men in women, the Bible studies, and the Holy Spirit's intervention in my life, I grew in wisdom, and grace.  I learned from Dr. Clyde Francisco over a bowl of my homemade clam chowder, sitting at my round glass-topped kitchen table in  my government assisted housing home, that I would never ever be perfect on this earth.  But God would work in me to use me to perfect His plan for my life, and to complete me in the day of His Second appearance on earth.  I learned that things happen in life for reasons we cannot know or sometimes understand this side of Heaven.  But God completed the work in Christ and sanctified me--set me apart--and justified me--as if I'd never spat in His face--and made me totally and completely righteous in Christ, because the Most High God is a Holy God and cannot look upon my filthy sin or fellowship with my pride-filled ego for a second without the cleansing power of Jesus Christ abiding in me.

I needed no other advocate, lawyer, acceptance committee.  I had all I needed in Jesus.  And though man might judge me, and criticize me, and persecute me for standing in the gap for Christ and the downtrodden, the weak, the lowly and equally abused, I had the greatest advocate and spokesman in the universe and beyond to keep me in the trials of earthly fire.

And I learned that when I am weak, and frail, and beaten, and broken, and disappointed, and discouraged, that God would send a person to undergird and hold up my arms so I could wave His banner through the battles of life which Christ Jesus had overcome.

I thank God for His mercy and grace in sending me a Christian counselor to help me endure the greatest grief I ever experienced in losing my 33-year-old son.  Her acceptance of me in the abyss of pain and agony cannot be equaled by freudian- slipsters who hand you pills and suggest an evening glass of wine to ease the troubles and dull the pain.  Pain does not always come disguised by some as bad and awful coals from hell.  Pain comes to let us know we are alive in Christ who keeps us through all eternity.  Without that pain, we'd be dead, lifeless, with nothing but apathetic disregard to others.

I need only gather one bouquet to guide me through the garden of Life in which I'm planted.  The Lily of the Valley and the Rose of Sharon.  He is the Great Physician.  He prescribes that I rest in Him.  That I seek His face in the morning, and at the setting sun.  He wipes my slate clean each night and gives me a brand new slate to use each morning.  His system of grace is all I need to keep me signed, sealed and one day, delivered to the gates of Heaven.  I welcome the opportunities I have in life to counsel as I've been counseled...to witness to what I've witnessed.  Jesus is our counselor, and friend, and in Him is the safest space in which to find the truth and life.  He is enough for me, is He enough for you?  selahV

VOICES IN THE GRASSLANDS...of the SBC, No.2

I've been wallowing a situation around in my head for a few days now.  Didn't give it a lot of thought at the time it all occurred. In fact, when an innocuous little comment I made was deleted at a blogsite I'd contributed to with complete harmonious accord for years, it kinda stuck in my craw. (That means, it was like one of those popcorn kernel covers that gets stuck back in your throat and you just can't seem to get it out.)  You drink some water.  You swallow some bread.  Then finally it occurs to you that the thing that is sticking tighter than a full-blown blood-sucking tick to a dog's ear bursts inside your mouth and you know...

...inadvertently, I had drawn first blood.  Inadvertently, I had been "predestined", I suppose, to think a thought, see a post I don't normally look at, and consider the point of the post in the first place.  So, I just offer my own little red flag in the sea of voices which rarely pay any attention to me anyway.  I write "I'm not interested".  Can you imagine what it would be like if I had been interested and published a comment?  stimulated dialogue?  entered debate?  spoke on substance?  read the entire post instead of the lead in?  Hmmmmmn, wonder what woulda happened then?  Well...maybe what everyone is running around the internet trying to squash...attention to some unappetizing tidbits within the ACTS-29 Network, and the schooling of the President himself.  Don't know.  Just don't know.

I do know, though...

that suddenly, my name is everywhere.  I thought, what in the world?  Who am I that anyone would care?  And what caused my little blog to quadruple in readership overnight?  And why are folks reading every snatch of info in all my posts?  Digging deep into the archives all of a sudden?  And what in the world has that silly post about the Dragon Lady conjured up?  Why the personal attacks?  Why the nasty remarks and the finger-pointing?  What was hidden in that little comment I made on a post that only garnered 4 comments, and was quickly buried out of sight with multiple postings from the editor and contributors?  All these questions were rolling around in my brain...along with the facts.  The facts.  The evidence of things we see, hear, read, and know for certain.

"Dots."  That's what Howell Scott calls them.  That's what some lurking lady named lydia calls them.  "Dots."  Dots that connect all this stuff together to give answers to one's questions.  At least a few.

Well...I belabor this post no longer...below is a fresh voice off the internet press.  Lady Lydia from Lurkland.  She's quite a busy lady.  I'm so busy going to the doctor, playing with my grandchildren, teaching them finer points of work ethics, reading Pinterest, and trying to keep up with the insanity of our POTUS and my weekly newspaper column, that I just can't be running all over blog-land looking for fires in the forest.  Bless Lydia's volunteer fire-fighter heart.  She may have stumbled upon the reason my nothing-comment, which I almost didn't post, has caused such a furor.  I don't know...you be the judge: 

 "Just reading around the meta and eureka, connected dots. Here is just one link http://phoenixpreacher.net/?p=11670), but there are plenty in the comments. Why the big deal on Harriet's simple comment at SBCV concerning the W. European Acts 29 guy? Setzer commeting so much over there to affirm Daves policies? Why the sudden "coincidental" "blog comment moderating" focus from other blogs around the NC/Reformed meta? Why?

Mark Driscoll. Since Petry, the former fired Elder/former lawyer, story came out-- some Acts 29 churches are not happy. Some are even leaving the network. Ergo, it is quickly being swtiched to Chandler. All to stop the possible bleeding of members or churches leaving the network. They want the blogosphere quiet about this and the post interviewing the W. Europe Acts 29 guy could have become a bit embarassing if any uncomfortable questions [were] asked.

Of course it is being spun that Driscoll leaving was planned all along but that would not explain Mark's announcement a month or so ago he had to come back to Acts 29 in a hands on way and get things in line there. But now, he is leaving a few weeks later to focus on ministry at MH? A bit flighty. Driscoll is stepping away to stop the bleeding.

Seems the guy who was running Acts 29, Scott Thomas, was one of the point guys for taking Petry down. There is documentation with him using Acts 29 resources to communicate with Petry. So, that involves Acts 29 in the spiritual abuse. So, now suddenly, Thomas is "going into another ministry" and not going to Texas to work for Chandler. Sojourn in Louisville has a letter on it's site saying it is leaving Acts 29 to become church planters dated March 28. Of course, they still love Acts 29. Will no one out in celebrity Christian land be Driscoll's Nathan? Must we all pretend this is not rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic?" "Lady" Lydia at FromLaw2Grace