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    Seeking writers with positive stories, anecdotes, essays, announcements, posts and experiences involving the SBC. WHAT'S GOD UP TO IN YOUR CHURCH? YOUR SCHOOL? YOUR VOCATION? YOUR MISSION FIELD?

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July 18, 2012

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Steve Martin

Sorry for all your computer glitches. I have had my share of them as well, and it can drive one batty.

Infants are born in sin. "In sin my mother conceived me" "No one is righteous, no, not one", "no one understands, no one seeks for God."

God judges each of us according to our own hearts and His will. We are not saved because our parents are saved.

What God does with an infant to dies is His business. But we have a gracious God. We pray that He would suffer the little children and let them come to Him. He told us as much.

Enoch

Surely you are not suggesting that Baptist calvinists are somehow secretly supporting infant baptism. Right?

selahV

Hi Steve, thanks for popping in.

So you do not agree with the Calvinists belief in this statement from the PCA church Tacoma, Washington website?

I have two babies in heaven. I'm not the least bit concerned about their well-being. I am assured Jesus is caring for them. However, this is the first time I've ever heard of anyone saying salvation is passed on to a child by Christian parents. I was truly surprised. And to use a passage from Genesis to support their thoughts was equally strange to me. One covenant though similar via the blood sacrifice, is not the same as the other which is of law and of grace. Yet, this makes me wonder if the PCA Calvinists are saying grace is the salvation factor in the OT covenant, also.

again, thanks for stopping by. selahV

selahV

Enoch,

thanks for logging on.

You ask: "Surely you are not suggesting that Baptist calvinists are somehow secretly supporting infant baptism. Right?"

Of course not. I'm not "suggesting" anything. I'm asking if this is what the Baptist Calvinists believe regarding the infants in the womb and out of the womb.

And if this is the Calvinist belief in Washington state, is it a universal belief with all Calvinists--Baptist included. Is this another point to Calvinism? Like a 6th point or something?

BTW, I love your name, Enoch. Is it really your name or is it a moniker? I've often wished I'd been as the biblical Enoch. selahV

Steve Martin

No, I don't agree with those Calvinists on the matter.

Babies are sinners and they need a Savior. And we have a very gracious Savior who loves infants and thinks that they are holy.

He told us that "we must become as these little ones...".

Infants are not capable of much in the way of reason, but they are capable of a great deal of trust (faith).

John the Baptist did some flips at the presence of Jesus, while they were both still in the womb!
How's that for faith!

Les Prouty

Hi selahV,

The PCA, huh? Your friend asked, ""Where is the doctrine of orginal sin and Adamic guilt in this statement above ... "The offspring of believers are born holy,"?""

The answer may be found below from the WCF, the confessional statement ministers in the PCA subscribe to.


"1. Our first parents, being seduced by the subtilty and temptation of Satan, sinned, in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin, God was pleased, according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory.

2. By this sin they fell from their original righteousness and communion, with God, and so became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body.

3. They being the root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was imputed; and the same death in sin, and corrupted nature, conveyed to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation.

4. From this original corruption, whereby we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual transgressions.

5. This corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated; and although it be, through Christ, pardoned, and mortified; yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin.

6. Every sin, both original and actual, being a transgression of the righteous law of God, and contrary thereunto, doth in its own nature, bring guilt upon the sinner, whereby he is bound over to the wrath of God, and curse of the law, and so made subject to death, with all miseries spiritual, temporal, and eternal."

WCF Chapter 6

Grace,

Les

Jeremy Crowder

I really don't understand why Calvinists can't say "Babies go to heaven" or "Babies don't go to hell'. It would be much easier but many will not do that. I've defended the idea of an Age of Accountability. My hope is Christians will abandon this avoiding the issue and say the truth which is babies aren't accountable.

Les Prouty

SelahV,

I'm not sure my comment got thru last night. I won't re type it though. But the answer to your friend's question above on original sin and Adamic guilt is found in the PCA adopted WCF chapter 6 on the fall of man. All ministers in the PCA are required to subscribed to the WCF, including Rob Rayburn.

Grace for the day,

Les

selahV

Jeremy, thanks for stopping in. I don't understand why they can't either, but mine is not to reason why...I'm stuck on whether that they actually believe a baby is holy and sanctified via the parental decision to follow Christ. My brain doesn't wrap around all this stuff.

I see it as: If Jesus said for us not to reject these little ones, then He is protecting the little ones. And since no one comes to the father but by Jesus and Jesus is the judge and has the authority to say who is His, then by golly, that's good enough for me to trust Jesus and not man's ideas about transferring salvation and holiness by way of osmosis. selahV

selahV

Hey Les Prouty! good morning to you. I received your other comment but everything goes into a cache till I read them. You wouldn't believe the spam I get if I let it go directly through. Viagra, Xanax, etc.
So I went to bed early and didn't post any of the comments. Just wanted to let ya know that I wasn't holding them hostage. :)

I read that comment, once. I need to re-read it a few times, because it really doesn't seem to answer what the friend was asking or the question I had about believing babies get saved and made holy through the parents faith in Christ. Jesus makes us holy, not people's decisions, actions or beliefs. At least that is how I see it. Talk later. thanks for loggin on. selahV

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