AM I DECEITFUL TO TALK TO MORMONS?

UPDATE!!!!!  THEY CAME CAME BACK~~Hubby wasn't home, soooooo.....

We sat on the front porch and talked for over an hour.  I explained that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.  They shared, "If it wasn't for the Book of Mormon their faith would all come crumbling down."  I said, "Exactly."  They let me pray for them at the end and who knows?  They may come to revival Wednesday night.  I invited them and they took a book-marker.  Every time Elder Nelson shared that the Book of Mormon was the authority and Joseph Smith was given authority to build Christ's church in America, the Oklahoma wind almost blew us off the porch!!!  Seriously!   Elder Nelson said, "What in the world?"

I said, "The Lord is trying to tell us something."  Then I'd share about the mighty rushing wind of the Holy Spirit. You wouldn't believe how little those guys know about the Word of God.  Unbelievable!  It was so exciting.  I need to write it all down.  One thing neither of them knew was the meaning of John 3:5 when Jesus answered Nicodemus, "...I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a man is born again of water and [even] the Spirit, he cannot [ever] enter the kingdom of God."  They thought that meant being baptized.  I said, "Oh, no, son.  That means when a person is in their mother's womb they are in a protective water and when they are born, they are born of the water.  Then when we believe in, adhere to, cling to Jesus and His saving grace through the attonement of our sins through His shed blood, we are born of the Spirit and He lives within us."

When they talked about LDS being the only church to baptize with authority, I said, oh but baptism is a command of Jesus and the authority wasn't given to just the LDS and Joseph Smith.  Indeed, we had a great time discussing everything.  And would you believe when I asked them if they knew why Jesus died on the cross, that they didn't have an answer?  And when I asked them why He came to earth they didn't know that either?  They were a bit surprised that I knew my scriptures so well.  I told them I had to know them because there would be many false prophets in the last days that would come and try to lead me astray.  Goodness, friends, what a mighty God we serve.  Couldn't have asked for a greater presence of God with the wind.  It went from a 60-degree calm day to 40-degree gale-blusters of about 40 miles per hour right up onto my front porch in one hour's time. selahV 2/25/08

~~~~~~~ 

2/23/08  When two Mormons showed up at my door yesterday [WHICH WAS 2/22/08~~], I was elated.  I greeted them with a joyful smile.  The one "in training" was flabbergasted.  The one standing behind but waiting to pounce on my every word (because he is the real deal in all things Mormon), was a hair skeptical of my kindness.  He asked, "Have you seen people like us before?"  I almost busted out laughing, but God checked my emotional weakness.

"Of course, I've seen people like you before.  You are Mormons."  They were both holding some pamphlets, videos and The Book of Mormon.  "Are you going to give me some of those things you have?"

They almost gasped.  They were controlled but definitely not expecting a nice response from me.  Obviously people had been shutting the door in their faces all day.  I live in a fairly large subdivision with quarter-acre lots connecting one another for several acres.

I felt sorry for them.  After all, I know the Truth, and they are peddling untruth and believing it is the ONLY truth.  So, being the kind of person I am, no fear here, I decided I'd ask for their periodicals.  I've been wanting the Book of Mormon but didn't want to buy one.  I've been conversing on line with a Mormon off and on for over a year now.  He's been trying to get me to read the book, and so this was a great opportunity for me.

Also, I thought, how can these poor young men ever know the love of Jesus without knowing Jesus?  And if I'm hateful to them, then how can my actions be justified?

They wanted to know if they could come in and talk.  I told them no because my husband wasn't home.  They asked if they could come back and I said, "Sure, but wait a couple of weeks because I want to read this Book of Mormon before you return."

They wrote down their number and I gave them mine and the more seasoned Elder beamed with excitement as he handed me their book.  He assured me that this book was not about Jonas Smith, but about Jesus Christ.  I said I understood.  I suspect he thinks I will accept this as fact because he said so.  So, am I being deceitful for allowing them to come back knowing full well that I will not believe a word they have to say?  The front cover of their book reads:

"Another Testament of Jesus Christ".  Well we all know that the other "testament" is an addition to the "New Testament" which we hold to be evidence of Jesus Christ and His only testament of Himself through His apostles and His Spirit.  And the other "testament" is all false doctrine sent from the pits of hell to confuse and thwart the message of Jesus and the Father in heaven.

So here I go.  I'm rather excited to be able to witness of my Lord to some folks who may or may not ever be able to hear me.  But one thing I know: if the Word of God is spoken, it will not come back void.  And so therefore the Elder-in-training is worth my time and efforts, don't ya think?  selahV 

Comments

[Rob Ayers]

C'est la vie,

The key to Mormonism is righteousness. Is it earned, or imputed? These boys have been working awful hard to get where they
are. They are probably tired. Speak to them about the Jesus who bears our every burden.

Rob

[Trish]

Well, according to some of the teaching that I am currently getting, you missed an opportunity to share the gospel and that is unfortunate, maybe even an eternal mistake if for some reason they do not make it back for you to share the gospel with upon their return. According to my professor, we are to make opportunites to share the gospel with a lost person and we are to do it right away if at all possible.

I see the point my professor makes, but I don't think it is as black and white as he makes each encounter out to be. I have a tendency to trust the leading of the Holy Spirit in these situations and have the conversation that is necessary to plant seeds,open the door, etc. if I do not feel led to do a gospel presentation because I've also been taught that the parable of the sower teaches that the soil is not always right to have the gospel be heard and the roots go deep. Therefore, there are times where the soil has to be cultivated first. I believe the Holy Spirit knows who needs cultivation and who is ready for the gospel.

If you didn't feel led to share the gospel with them, then I do not believe you are doing anything deceitful, you are preparing the soil by showing them a willingness to listen to them, you are establishing yourself as someone who has respect for them. When they come back, you will have the opportunity to hear their presentation and be prepared to lovingly tell them you do not agree with them and hopefully, you will have earned the right to tell them why. Then, you can share the gospel with them and let the Holy Spirit work in the soil that has been cultivated. They may not accept the gospel at that point, but hopefully you will have been able to sow more seed for the next person the Spirit puts in their path.

Sorry for the long answer, those are some of the thoughts that have been brewing in my head recently and you gave me a perfect opportunity to put them to paper. I hope they made sense and that someone else will come along and educate me about how I am right or how I am wrong, or a little of both. I truly want to understand this evangelism stuff better and have some confusion right now.

Blessings,
Trish

[Steve]

Take the opportunity...
I think anything that opens the door for the gospel to these folks is fine.
I asked a pair what they thought of Roman Catholic cassocks etc...
of course they despised them.. then I asked how they managed on such a hot day with scratchy linen underwear.. one went bright red with embarrassment (how did you know what underwear he was wearing?) the other realised the incongruity of criticising "priestly garments"...when he was wearing so called priestly garments.. (am I mean to have fun when I am sharing the gospel?)
It lead into a fruitful conversation about the ONE mediator between God and men (the Lord Jesus Christ) and the ONE sacrifice that took away the need for priestly intercessions, His atoning death. Which brings us to the point of assurance of salvation as the need which folks have: everyone needs to know they are forgiven...F.A.I.T.H.
Steve

[Chris]

No Deceit. I heard on Christian Radio this week that the attrition rate of mormon converts is 80% after 2 years. Interesting tidbit.

Christ can work in this, I know I did the same for some J.W. several years ago and had one mve closer to truth, so close he was disfellowshiped for associating with me.

Chris

[Keith Schooley]

Of course you're not being deceitful. You never said that you were going to be persuaded by them; you told them you would read their book and be glad to talk to them, after you'd read the book of Mormon, as long as your husband was around. All perfectly true.

From what I understand, by the way, very little of Mormon theology actually comes out of the book of Mormon. Just as Soviet policy was more about Lenin than Marx, Mormon practice is more about Brigham Young than Joseph Smith.

I think it's great that you're inviting them in to share the Good News with them. Bravo!

[ron]

Hi selahV,

You would go and ask a question like this so I could say you are being decietful and coniving to get their book ! But on the other hand you were right to be able to read what they believe in so you hopefully help them understand that God didn't send them and only them words for their personal benefit ! The words were sent for everybody and were inspired by God and that is scripture they should abide by !

There was three that came to my door about 2 months ago and I tried to be nice untill one said Brother I shore would like to spend eternity with you ? Thats when their heavy artillery came out ! I asked them was heaven going to be divided so we could stand on opposite side of the street and throw rocks at each other and let God be the meadiator! They wouldn't let me get a word in edge ways so I told them I would pray for them and that was end of coversation and please show themselves out ! They were acting like children when you tell them they cain't have another piece of candy ! If they do come back I think and hope you will be prepared ?

Blessings.
Ron.

[selahV]

Rob, that is exactly what went through my mind when I saw them at the door. They looked tired, beaten and discouraged. They had no expectation of goodness or kindness or welcome to come to the door.

"Come unto Me all you who are heavy laden, and I will give you rest," comes to mind.

They said they'd come back, and if they do, my hope is to share my love of Jesus. That's all. I'm not out to debate. Just ain't my style. selahV

[selahV]

TRISH...I've heard evangelism taught and I believe the only thing that makes a difference is hearing the Word of God repeated over and over again. I believe God brought those two young Mormons to me because He has a plan. As He leads, I follow--not with some systematic dogma to do it someone else's way. I think it is wonderful for people to share Jesus immediately as though they have no tomorrow, and the next minute is their last. I have shared that way before and led two ladies to Jesus. However, I've heard the Spirit's leading to wait upon Him, also, and, like you, found that the soil needed turning just a bit more by the Lord before I planted my seeds. And then I let Him water, weed, fertilize and grow that seed till He is ready to harvest. So you and I are in agreement and your professors and I are too, to a point. selahV

[selahV]

Chris and Grosey: Years ago I heard a Upper-level Jehovah's Witness (who'd been on Phil Donahue) share how unkind and unloving the Christians were who slammed their doors in his face when he went to visit them. This continual rejection was proof to him that what the JW taught was true--that they'd be rejected by the world. That stuck with me because he also said it was a person who gave him a Bible, which JW are not suppose to read, that began to eat away at his fortress of false doctrine. He is a Southern Baptist preacher today.

I'd say if we, as Christians, could weaken the Mormons and JW's with our kindness and love, it would do more than slamming doors. Wouldn't you? These people are dedicated to their mission--albeit a lost cause. Oh that God would lead them all to Himself through us. What a powerful Army we'd be. selahV

[selahV]

Keith, Odd that you bring that up about the Book of Mormon. It was almost as if Elder Nelson was making an apology for that book when he handed it to me. He said, "this isn't about Jonas Smith, you know? It's about Jesus Christ."

Through the years, Jonas Smith has been vilified so much (and rightly so,)that they seem hesitant to bring him up when they talk. BYU and the BYU Choir gives them a more positive influence. And more and more the focus is on the High Prophets at the top of the Latter Day Saints organization. At least that is what I've experienced in conversing with some fellas online.

Thanks for your input. Pray for me. selahV

[selahV]

Ron, My preparedness rests in my knowledge that Jesus is THE Way, THE Truth and THE Light and no one--absolutely no one--comes to the Father but by Him. And no one manufactures His Spirit within us or makes us righteous but Him through His attoning sacrifice on Calvary. Knowledge is not the key to heaven---Jesus is. He's the Key, the Handle, and Door. My aim is to listen to them, and give them a glass of cold water and offer them Living Water at the same time. I don't want them to thirst again. selahV

[Cyle]

Dearest SelahV,

Cunning as a serpent. Gentle as a dove. You know they're after you, and they know you're after them. What they don't know is that your God, the true One, loves them and so do you. So, in the words of far too many rednecks, "Sick 'em!"

Cyle

[Steve]

Well.. they might even be of the elect ;)
Steve

[selahV]

Grosey: I'm sure they think they are. They left me a movie this time. selahV

[Trish]

You go girl! May the seeds you planted be given plenty of water, but find they need some more fertilizer and show up on Wednesday to get more food!

Trish

[selahV]

Trish: They were so sad. Neither of them could answer questions. They were shocked that I used the word "attonement and propitiation for sins". When they shared about Joseph Smith's meeting in the woods with God and Jesus, they said it happened because he read James 1:5 and prayed for God to give him wisdom and He did. I asked them if they really believed that verse's promise had the power to do that for Joseph Smith; they both quickly said yes. I had them read the verse again. Then I asked if they believed the Bible to be true since Joseph Smith took it to be true? And they said yes. I said, well, if that verse had the authority for Joseph Smith and, as I believe, it has the authority to speak Truth today, then why wouldn't God give them and me the same wisdom they said God gave Joseph Smith? They hemmed and hawwed and had no answers.

The best part of the day was asking them questions about the very scriptures they quoted and seeing they had no answers. It was rather frustrating for the boys. About 20 or 21 I'd say. I've always been told that the only way to win a Mormon or Jehovah's Witness is to plant enough doubt into their own thinking that they begin to question their own beliefs. So I'm trying to do that as the Lord leads. I'm definitely no evangelist, and I'd not be very happy if they showed up with their high-priests, but whatever happens, happens.

I'll let them come back as long as I sense the Lord's hand in it. But I've already told them that I could never accept their book as the inerrant word of God and do not understand how they could.

No sense gnawing on a stripped bone or casting pearls before swine for too long. I am concerned about those devil-laced items of theirs being in my home though. A wicked-acting kitten showed up on my back door the same day those guys showed up at my front door. The cat hasn't left. And I haven't fed it. Hubby's threatening to take it to Lake Latonka and letting it go for a swim. (I know, I know. some cats are good cats...not too sure about this one. It runs from hubby and when I went out and pet it today, it bit me, then purred to beat the band.) selahV

[Keith Schooley]

Praise God! Good for you, SelahV! I wonder how many opportunities we miss because we're afraid we won't have the answers. It's easier to make an excuse and duck back inside our houses.

I think you're wise to keep in mind whether the Lord's hand seems still to be in it or not. Your words (filled, I'm sure, with The Word) will go with them, even if they don't come to the Lord right now. Who knows what effects our conversations have on people for years on down the road.

[selahV]

Hi Keith...yes, that is the way I feel that I have no idea what God will do with my words,but it is certain His will not return void. There was not one second of argumentive attitudes in our conversation. NONE. It really was like a couple of guys showed up from the neighborhood and we just sat there talking about the differences between us. I asked them if they'd had a hard day. They said it had been tiring. I talked to them about how Jesus is our comfort in times when we're weary and worn. I asked if they'd had any folks slam the door in their faces. And they said, "yes,they had and that most people didn't want to talk about God." I told them that was the way of the world today. I told them I think most people are afraid to talk about God. Elder Nelson told me that people like me assume that they are going to be argumentative. And I said, "that's funny, because I think you thought I was going to be argumentative; did you?" He said, "Yes, I did." We had several common-ground moments. And I do hope that my kindness will do more to reach them as they go on in their lives and contemplate others who might take the time to be kind too. There are several such people from my "before Christ days" that I remember who left footprints in my life that once I was saved I recognized and remembered how their words and actions had played a role in my coming to faith in Christ. Keep me in your prayers. selahV

[Luke]

Looks like I arrived at the party a little late. I add my agreement that I saw no deceit. In fact, after seeing the exchange when they came back, they obviously did not believe you had deceived them. In fact, you are giving truth to the already deceived. We'll trust that the words of the Lord that you shared with them will bring conviction upon them.

Luke

[grosey]

I got stuck in a thunderstorm with a mormon missionary some years ago.. I believe the Lord opened his heart in that conversation.
I commenced by saying " You folks claim you have the "witness of the Spirit" that the Book of Mormon is the Word of God, but funny, I have "the witness of the Spirit" that the book of Mormon is NOT the Word of God."
this elad to sharing about the authority of the Word of God,
which lead to the gospel of jesus Christ.
He was going home to Hawaii the very next day, I believe a changed born again young man!
You are doing right SelahV to push them on the issue of the authority of the Scriptures.
Steve