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January 09, 2008

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Very nicely put. Frank, forthright, honest and sincere is the kind of talk that is needed. You cannot very well address the elephant(racism and those who use it for personal gain) if you keep calling it a puppy.

You sure do stay up late.

Luke, how great to have you come by. ever get that gymnasium finished?

I grieve in my heart for all who suffer the pain of heartless smears. As christians I charge that it is expedient for us to confront our brothers and sisters wherein we witness intentional or unintentional err. However we must do so with the loving-kindness our Father has so liberally bestowed upon us. To do less is no better than the one who errs with the utmost of intentional disregard for humanity rooted in his/her heart. selahV

you just said, "we must do so with the loving-kindness our Father has so liberally bestowed upon us."

That seems to be vacuously absent in too many places in the blogosphere.

This is a wonderful post.

Excellent post. I applaud your transparency.

Les

Colin, My prayer is that we will soon be able to fill that vacumn with the Spirit of God by manifesting His Spirit in our hearts and souls. This can only be accomplished through broken hearts yielded to Him and not to the men from whom we seek approval.

May God in His Glory bring us all to His feet. selahV

Les, may Christ find honor in my words and they bring applause to Him only. selahV

Unfortunately, we have not finished it yet Mrs. V. We are close but not close enough to call it done. Other than that, I've just had too many irons in the fire for one person so I have been out of pocket a little while.

The part that kinda bugs me a little is this. If a person unintentionally smears someone, why can't the one smeared show benevolence toward the other. It seems that so many are just waiting for any reason to fly off the handle and gain an audience. It is just as much a duty of mine to seek forgiveness when I offend as it is my duty to express the greatest of love, forgiveness, when I am offended. Forgiveness in spite of the type of offense should be the attitude of my or all Christian's hearts. But then again, sometimes we want to hang on to unforgiveness because I believe that it is somehow beneficial to myself. What a lie Satan propagates.

SelaV

This is part of a comment that I made on Peter's blog. I am reproducing it here to throw my two cents into the mix. I have great respect for your writings, and as an extention for you as well. You and I have not interacted much, if at all, and probably for the reason that I often come down on the Wade supporter side of most issues. Be that as it may, race is hard, and I fear that it will continue to be hard until Christ returns. I have learned much from my friends of other races, but probably the primary thing that I have learned is that I as an early 50s white man, will never understand what my African American friends went through - and continue to go through. Kids in this generation seem to be more colorblind, at least that is what I have observed with my daughters. But these kids seem too accepting of almost everything - I guess the tolerance messages that they have been bombarded with since birth by the media have taken hold

I grew up in whitebread, middle class america. The only African Americans I encountered were the two or three that attended my 1200 student high school. I went to a small private christian college, we had very few Africans or African Americans. My parents rasied us to be color blind, or as color blind as possible. I do not recall that they ever used a racist term about any minority.

It was not until I began my professional career that I began to encounter people of different races, and developed a life long friendship with an African American man that I began to receive my education on what it means to be black in America in the south. My friend grew up Dallas, in the shadow of Fair Park (a poor predominately black section of Dallas). Attended an all black high school - poor teachers, second hand books, no lab equipment etc - you know, separate but not even close to equal. He was an amazing athlete, ran the 800 meters, went to a big 12 school on a track scholarship. Of course he had to be careful where he chose to run in the dallas area, as he was stopped many times as he ran through white areas of town. After college, you would think that employers (and this was in the early 80s) would have been falling all over themselves to hire him as he was smart, well spoken etc - not so much. He wound up taking a job that was quite beneath his education etc - yet has wound up doing well. The overt and subtle racism he has encountered has boggled my mind.

All that to say that when I see someone like Pastor McKissik castigated for playing the "race card" I just shake my head. None of us can relate to what it meant to grow up black in the day and time that he grew up. To walk into the Ec building in Nashville and see what he saw - i truly dont know why predominately black churches stay part of the SBC.

I am fortunate to be part of a semi racially diverse church. Our deacon body has several hispanic men and one African American man. Our pastor plans to have either an African American or Hispanic man as his associate pastor as soon as we can affored to bring on another staff member. On the other side of the church issue - my wife and I belonged to a church in Plano, Texas in the mid 80s when west Plano, where this church was located) was the hot growing spot for very upwardly mobile professionals - one of the deacons told me that this church would be uncomfortable with black members. We left shortly thereafter.

Jim Champion

SelahV,

Thanks for this post. I need to add that I have experienced the reverse racism that came with affirmative action. I experienced it in work place pre-college, in college, and post college career opportunities. I hesitate in sharing this for the fear of being misunderstood. However, I want shed some ligh on it from a diferent perspective. I disciple men. One man I am discipling is black. His name is Eric. We talk about the race issue often. When I told him after a year all the inequities I have experienced he was amazed. He said, “Why didn’t you do anything? You were more oppressed than me.” I told him that the way to win the heart is to ignore our own slights and to trust Jesus. Besides, God's plan was for me to be a pastor, not an optometrist. Good thing there were some quotas! I'm not insinuating we don't have a race problem or the realities you state in your post, rather that we overcome it by candid conversation, not insinuation and suspicion. Eric and I agree the way to stop discrimination is to stop discriminating.

Eric sent me this article from Wikipedia. Eric’s comment was; “Wow, I never knew this, we made it racist.” My reply, “There is too much money to be made and political points to gain for racism to die down. Let’s you and I be change agents!”
Last, I hope my dead, ¾ Cherokee grand pops favorite food doesn’t become a pejorative!

Luke: Dear friend, you ask, "If a person unintentionally smears someone, why can't the one smeared show benevolence toward the other." I would say that it could be a matter of the heart. We are always quicker to react than sit back and try and figure out what meaning is attached to a statement. I have been put on the chopping block for asking questions just to figure out what a person means so I do not offend and by my very questions I am considered suspect. So the answer in a situation such as race relations, I have more to learn than offer as advice. selahV

Dear Jim, welcome to my haven of inspiration and encouragement. Glad you found a moment to visit. I pray you find a harbor from the vociferous commentaries you engage on other blogs.

You write: "You and I have not interacted much, if at all, and probably for the reason that I often come down on the Wade supporter side of most issues."

You presume amiss, dear Jim. It matters not to me on what side of Wade folks are on. I have no qualms with issues. In fact, you would probably be very surprised at some of the issues for which Wade and I see eye to eye. I'm just not one to put my finger in everyone's pie. I tend to read more and speak less. Most often my comments, if you were to do a study of them, are in relation to the spiritual nature and conduct one exhibits within our community of Christian cyber-land. After having tried on numerous occasions to engage some of the more controversial bloggers on topics without any success, I simply gave up and took my empty bucket home.

I've found a few places which welcome me with open arms and engage my comments as if I'm a longheld friend, even when I'm a first-time blogger. These blogs range from Pentacostal, Emergent, Independent Baptist, Southern Baptist, and more. I have diverse interests and find a bit of wisdom is in all. For the majority of my 31 years as a Southern Baptist, I have virtually stayed completely out of politics. Not fun. I don't like it. I don't think there is really any place for it in Christian community. So, I find it rather distasteful when I try to engage a person in a conversation about oranges and they insist that oranges are apples.

In the case of Dr. McKissic, I am so very grieved that he encounters anything but the grace and respect for which he bestows upon others. I do not know what is going on in Nashville regarding the employment procedures of African American, Hispanic, German, Vietnamese, Chinese or Japanese. I would venture a guess but it would be ignorant at best and plain silly at least. I cannot answer for Nashville. Perhaps the better thing to do would be to inquire why the highest position held by an African American is Head-custodian. Maybe no one applied for any other positions. Lord knows we aren't notorious for paying what a person is worth. And an African American who has the education and credentials to serve on any higher position within the Nashville hierarchy, might just rather go where he or she will be compensated for their knowledge and experience. That is just my off-the-wall guess.

My husband is a custodian, by the way. He served the Lord as a minister in fairly good sized churches in his 23 year ministry, but here he is back as a custodian now that he is retired due to a heart condition. He finds the work just as honorable as he did ministry. He does it unto the Lord. I digress.

No one should intentionally treat another person as less than themselves. It is unChristian to do so. Color is not the issue in that. I think it is extremely difficult for our black friends, brothers and sisters, to be treated with unChristian behavior. Some people treat all people with unChristian behavior and find a way to whitewash their black-hearted actions.

Some folks can excuse away anything AND find supporters to agree with them.

While this post is not about Dr. McKissic, it is about race and the difficulty in white folks relating to black folks and black folks relating to white folks.

I have a story about some teenage boys I'm going to tell in another post that is so charming it breaks my heart. It paints a picture of tolerance and openness as well as any that we adults could come up with. However, it could just as easily be misconstrued as demeaning and hateful.

Want to know what I'd like to see in the SBC? I plan to write on it Monday for the sbcIMPACT main blog. Perhaps that will bring enough dialog to the forefront to spearhead something wonderful. I'll see.

I can't apologize for the long response. I'm prone to be verbose. However your comment warranted a response commensurate to its own length. Again, thank you for coming here. I appreciate your input...no matter how much you agree with Wade. selahV

Chris, I am certain there are many stories we would find that show the other-side of racial discrimination. I've had a few that happened to friends of mine as well. White folks are overlooked and bypassed for another person of race all the time. However, the long-held discrimination against the black people in America will take more than a few of our jobs to overcome. It will take not four black quarterbacks in the NFL, not twenty percent of the White House Cabinet being black nominees, not just one Supreme Court Justice. It will take all people of all races to be color-blind.

Until then what you say here carries one of the most poignant statements we could discuss: "I'm not insinuating we
don't have a race problem or the realities you state in your post,
rather that we overcome it by candid conversation, not insinuation and suspicion. Eric and I agree the way to stop discrimination is to stop discriminating."

And some of us would do well to concern ourselves less with the color of our skin and more with the thickness of it. Sensitivity is pride and pride leads us to attach more significance to a statement than is intended most times. Even as I wrote this post, I knew I might offend someone inadvertantly, unintentionally. That concerns me---not because I want folks to think I'm a well-informed person---no. It is because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or cause them undue pain. And that is my fear when I say I have fear. That and that alone. selahV

SelaV

Thank you for your gracious and verbose comment!

Jim

selahV:

Any word from CB?

Greg Harvey

p.s. God set my internal alarm for 4:00am central, sharp. I was delighted!

Greg, thanks for stopping by. CB got the kiddos! No more battles. We are rejoicing with him and his church which showed up in force in the courtroom to support him. God is so very very good. Above all, through all, with all, all the time. Praise His Holy name. selahV

Jim...you're welcome. Come back anytime. selahV

PTL! So glad to hear the good news about CB and family! Thank you for the update, and for the blessing of praying for them.

God bless you, Selah.

Love,
Rose

SelahV,

One more thought. I spoke with my friend Eric about the events of the last week; he did see all the hubbub over the comment. He then went to tell me he went and saw the movie "The Debaters" – movie about blacks and there educational acumen prior to the civil rights. He was blown away because he had never been taught about the rich heritage of blacks, only the sad stories of victimized racism, of which he states he never experienced. We dialoged a bit and he made this point. “My people (blacks) were much better off when they were over-comers and not victims.” WOW, now that is a thought!

Chris, I'm not aware of the movie, THE DEBATERS, but Eric's thought:

"“My people (blacks) were much better off when they were over-comers and not victims.” is very similar to what a recent white blogger and brother said that turned our black brother and blogger's blood to ice on another thread.

The difference as I see it between Eric and the other blogger may be an age factor. Eric probably never lived in the time when his sister was beaten unrecognizable for daring to ask for a lawyer when asked to sign a ticket. It's just as hard for me, who has never been unkind--or demeaning to a black person--to comprehend how all light-skinned people are considered racist for remarks held as redflags by people of color.

Hence, this post. selahV

Chris, another thing. I understand the reasoning behind, "my people" in some instances--especially in the context of this comment made by Eric. Yet, I've never referred to the anglo race as "my people" and it seems to trigger in me a feeling of discontent when I hear others use it at times. i.e. Oprah Winfrey once said while discussing interracial marriages, that " we don't like white women taking "our" men". The conversation at the time was that white women picked the best of "their" educated, prospering men.

Also it was said that black men choose white women as trophies to place themselves in higher standing within the white establishment.

I cannot comprehend this animosity toward white women for falling in love and wanting to marry a black man and black men seeking trophies. They fell in love and married one another--two people. Who are we to judge that they sat around discussing properity of one and the value of trophies of the other? Could you ask your friend, Eric about that? selahV

selahV:

Thanks for the news and for the email about it as well. I'm so delighted that God permits us to participate in such a mighty way in his plan of salvation and restoration.

Prayer is a glorious opportunity to seek to understand and to fathom the mind of God and at the same time to rest in comfort and security within his hand! I'm so happy for CB and Karen and the kiddoes!

Greg

V,

You have adequately pointed out that racism is not the main issue. Rather, it is the prejudices within the hearts of all people. It simply reveals itself as racism with some.

Luke

What a beautiful post. Thank you for writing it. I have always felt that if we could just be open and talk about the things that we find offensive, or hurtful, maybe we could all be a little more mindful of what others are feeling. My daughter is a teller at the bank, and recently, our branch was robbed by an armed gunman. It really shook up all of the girls in the branch. A few days later, one of the guys used a term, and he meant no harm by it, but he said, "let's pull the trigger on that." I don't completely understand why, but it upset the girls. We decided that maybe, for a while, we would watch what metaphors we used around the branch.
I've always been open, maybe too open for some folks, with all my friends. I'm just inquisitive by nature, so I ask my women friends what its like for a customer to hit on them while they are working. Or I might ask a black friend how it feels to be followed by a policeman for no apparent reason. Like someone else pointed out earlier, the key is to talk about it openly, make an effort to understand the feelings of others, and then act according to New Testament principles. It can be hard for those of us who like our comfortable little worlds, but it is absolutely essential.
Thanks again for a beautiful post.

Luke: you are so succinct and on target my brother. Indeed the main issue is the inability to communicate with one another as people without looking at the color of their skin. Our prejudices lead us to racism and accusations of racism just breed more prejudices that can produce further racism as I see it. It is the heart we need cleansing---that will take care of the mind. selahV

jasonK! well as I live and breathe! how did you manage to get over here with that walker and cane tripping you? :) Welcome, my old buddy!

Thanks. I wish this was a post that never had to be written, nor ever discussed again. But that would be rather premature in light of all the discord, misunderstandings, misinterpretations, presumptions and assumptions on the part of all races, I'm afraid.

I really cannot speak for anyone other than myself, but I do get weary trying to figure out how I offend folks---all folks, not just people of color, these days. When I was growing up, the words "political correctness" just meant good manners with Christian principles. Today, it's more than my feeble mind can wrap its deteriorating cells around. As soon as I get one thing figured out, another thing pops up that is not correct to say.

I had a delightful dinner with my 10 year-old granddaughter last evening and she used terms I have never heard of before. I don't even know if they were derogatory. She didn't seem to say them in an offensive way. But I did wonder what in the world kind of language she was speaking. Sometimes I feel very very old. selahV

Well, you know, us old folks have got to stick together :>)
When it comes to interpersonal relations, there are many kinds of people, but two come to mind in light of what we are discussing here. One kind is the person who says, "I say what's on my mind, and if that bothers you, too bad." I know that I am going to have a hard time getting along with that person, because what they are really saying is, "I'm a jerk, and I don't care."
The other extreme is the person who never says anything, for fear of offending one person. They cannot possibly fulfill their God-given purpose in life, because they are too afraid to interact with others.
I'm not always very good at this, especially with the anonymity of the blog world, but in my personal relationships, I try to be courteous and gracious to those around me. If I feel a little more at ease around them, I can let loose a little, but courtesy and grace usually gets the job done. I think it may have to do with what the New Testament says about unwholesome words coming out of our mouths, not so much cursing and bad language, but just a general air of love and contentment in one's speech. I don't usually have to worry much about political correctness if I am focused on the other person. Like I said, I'm better at talking about this than I am of actually doing it, but I'm working on it.

JasonK, you're baaaack! I went over to your blog and read your lengthy post. Some of it was quite good.

Did someone else say you were misguided? I'd tell them you aren't misguided. "a bit" misguided--but not completely. :)

I agree that some folks have an edge to their comments on the internet. I try to be all the more careful of what I write because folks so easily read between lines things which aren't there.

I find that the jovial ribbing we give one another in real life does not carry over very well in the internet unless the parties conversing are well-known to each other. I've even seen the jovial kidding drop like a lead balloon in real life because the joking individual is not aware of the other folks in the room that might misinterpret them--or for that matter, the mood of the other person he's chiding.

I agree many folks are too timid to voice an opinion on subjects. Ethnic jokes come to mind.

In the south where I grew up, it was slurs on black folks. In Connecticut where I spent 14 years of my married life, it was slurs on Italian, Puerto Rican, Black and Polish. Now? It's slurs on everyone except white folks. White folks are called a multiplicity of things yet we are not considered to be prejudiced against at all.

My daughter's best friend (who happened to be black) had a friend who stole my daughter's purse. After that event, my daughter never understood why her friend no longer associated with her. My daughter lost her purse and personal photos and a friend. The friend could not stand with my daughter because to stand with my daughter would mean she stood against her "sisterhood".

My son stood up to people all the time who were prejudiced. His friends were mostly black. At his funeral his pall bearers were black, Mexican, old and young, businessmen and blue-collar workers.

There is coming a day, not for another century, where the races will be gone. We will have so intermarried that the entire world will be of one color. Wonder what we'll fight about then? selahV

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    It doesn't have to be a monster at your door keeping you awake. It doesn't have to be a thief with a gun. It doesn't have to be an approaching tornado, or a rising river. It doesn't even have to be an attack on your heart, nor a life-threatening disease. Terrors in the night are anything that robs you of peace. They may waken you with a dream. Like a thunder crash or lightning flash. They chase your thoughts from place to place and whisper words of accusation. They keep sleep in a chokehold and will not let you rest. They remind you of your failings. They taunt you with doubt and offer futility and hopelessness with situations you are facing. Terrors in the night. They are real. Yet... "You shall not be afraid of the terrors of the night, nor of the arrow ( the evil plots and slanders of the wicked) that flies by day, nor of the pestilence that stalks in darkness, nor of the destruction and sudden death that surprise and lay waste at noonday." Psalm 91:5,6. "You shall not be afraid." Why? "Because you have made the Lord your refuge, and the Most High your dwelling place." Ps. 91:9 I have a little secret that helps me get back to sleep in the midst of a dark night of demonic attack and oppression. Whenever that happens to me, and I am not a stranger to the realms of darkness enveloping my mind and trying to crush my spirit, I go to the Word. Literally. I take my Bible and I lay it upon my chest and pray. I cling to the Word and all the promises within it that may not even be clear in my mind. I begin to pray for others who have difficulties. I pray for missionaries in foreign lands who face incredible dangers. I pray for pastors under attack. I pray for battered wives, and bereaved mothers. I pray for anyone and everyone the Lord calls to my mind. For He has given His angels charge over me to accomplish and defend and preserve me in all my ways of obedience and service. (Ps.91:11) I feel the pleasant pressure of my Bible against my heart and know that God is all-sufficient to meet my needs and those of ones I love and have committed unto His care. And then I sleep. selahV [copyrighted, SelahV Today, 2008]
  • FEARLESS CONFIDENCE
    ~~~~~~~~~~ Discouragement sits on every corner. It lurks in the shadows of joy, waiting for the opportune time to jump out of the darkness and wipe out all the goodness in a moment's achievement, success, or blessing. It's sole purpose is to impede forward progress. It is born of negative thinking and leads to apathy and uselessness. Many times discouragement is carried into the rooms of our hearts by friends who linger too long at the well of negativity. But we need to take heart and not allow it to attach itself to our lives and destroy our confidence, hope, and faith. "Do not, therefore, fling away your fearless confidence, for it carries a great and glorious compensation of reward." Hebrews 10:35 Our confidence can be thwarted and our courage quelled when we allow the stones of discouragement and arrows of despair to penetrate the armor of God. We must hold fast and cling to our fearless confidence in the Redeemer and Protector of our faith. He sits on His throne and His enemies are His footstool. Nothing can harm us, nor override His plan for our lives when we rest in His presence and power. selahV [copyrighted, SelahV Today, 2008]
  • WHEN OTHERS HURT
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It seems there are many many folks who are either hurting or know someone who is hurting. And for all the wisdom, resources and desire we have, we cannot do a thing about the hurting. We sit in our worlds and ponder our usefulness. We contemplate the call of believers to reach out to brothers and sisters who need us. We long to make the difference in their lives and know we cannot. We feel an emptiness that contradicts the hope in our minds. Yet, we cling to the faith within us that we will persevere, and those we love will endure. Then we pray without ceasing for the needs in our lives and recall the promises of God. In the difficulty of the day, we wrestle with principalities and realms of darkness and implore the Lord for assistance. We seek our Lord on our knees in brokenness and shame, we raise our voices in wordless prayer. Our Spirit makes intercession for us. Then we commit ourselves and our concerns to Him once again. "For I know Whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I've committed unto Him against that day." Pause and think about it. I believe God brings us to these desert times to remind us of our only need--HIM. Our rest is in Him. Our hope is in Him. Our love is in Him. Our future is in Him. Our provision is in Him. And He will keep all that I commit to Him any time I bring it to Him. And He will fill up my soul with His refreshment and grant me His peace which the world cannot give. Grace, grace, marvelous grace; a grace that is greater than all my sin. Sufficient is our Lord. selahV [copyrighted, SelahV Today, 2008]
  • WILL YOU PRAY THIS PRAYER FOR ME?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “For this reason we also from the day we heard of it, have not ceased to pray and make [special request] for you, [asking] that you may be filled with the full (deep and clear) knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom [in comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God] and in understanding and discernment of spiritual things— that you may walk (live and conduct yourselves) in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him and desiring to please HIm in all things, bearing fruit in every good work and steadily growing and increasing in and by the knowledge of God [with fuller, deeper, and clearer insight, acquaintance, and recognition]. [We pray] that you may be invigorated and strengthened with all power according to the might of His glory, [to exercise] every kind of endurance and patience (perseverance and forbearance) with joy, Giving thanks to the Father….” Colossians 1:9-12a. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to know someone was praying like that for you? For your loved ones? For your church members? For your pastor? What a wonderful way to pray! Shall we start today? selahV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  • HOW ARE YOU KNOWN?
    Today there are folks who know you. They only know you by what you write, how you act and interact with others. They only know you by your words, your behavior–your reputation. What do they know? How are you known? When I read the passage below from Romans, I paused and thought about what Paul is saying: “First, I thank God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because [the report of] your faith is made known to all the world and is commended everywhere.” Romans 1:8. Wouldn’t it be the most amazing thing to have someone commend you in this way? To have such a faith that the report of it honors your Lord all over the world? When you write, do you think of this? When you talk to others, do you keep this in mind? When you begin your week, do you even consider how you are known to all the world–or your portion of it? These are questions we might all ponder today. selahV

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